I just wanted to let you know and all the minimalist runners / Barefoot runners... the prototype I have seen from the minimus line was really awesome! For those of us that like the look of a shoe but choose not to wear them due to our lifestyle - NB nailed it with this project! thanks NB! Can't wait to get my hands on one

@barefootadam - on Twitter

I've been running in the Road Minimus protos for about 3 weeks now and they are amazing. My new favorite shoe.

Can you make a winter version of these shoes? There is absolutely no chance that I will purchase this shoe, as during summer I will run either completely barefoot or in my homemade sandals. But for wintertime I would love to see a shoe on the market with:

Super thin sole (3mm max)
Decent traction on packed snow
Slightly insulated upper

I've been thinking of UGG-shoes for this, but with a snugger fit and thinner sole.

The temperature range I'm thinking of is from freezing to 0°F.

I am super excited to try these out! There has been a lot of interest in minimalist running products in the Toronto area and it's outstanding that New Balance will have a product offering in this movement. There are NB sponsored elite runners in Guelph, Ontario who are also very excited to use NB Minimus products in their training in 2011.

@SkinShoes - we asked Katherine about this and she said it's a possibility as we plan the line out. We've heard a few other mentions of creating a winter product around here. It's great to know there's interest. Thanks for your request!

@ SkinShoes: the problem you'll have with a 3mm sole in the winter is that you'll get pretty cold. You can lose a lot of heat from the bottom of your foot. My Vibram Fivefingers have a 3mm sole and when it gets below 25 or so, I can't run in them (they don't fit well with socks, even toe socks).

I love my Fivefingers, but I can't wait for this line to come out. What are the odds of buying a prototype? I'd love to try these out.

@ pk:

Well, 25 degrees below (Celsius or Fahrenheit) is quite a step down from the temperature range I was thinking of. Also, the Vibrams do not have do not have insulated upper (as far as I know). I don't have much experience in running barefoot in much below freezing, but I know running *at* freezing it is all right as the foot seems to be generating a lot of heat when barefoot running. And when I run in my sandals, which have a 3mm elephant bark sole and 1mm felt footbed, my feet are outright toasty warm even in freezing temperatures.

Maybe if it had a 3mm (all right, maybe 4 or 5mm) rubber sole and an optional 2-3mm closed cell insulating material insole for those really cold days? (Optional as in making the footbed comfortable with or without said insole).

I'm really excited for these shoes. Been running in vibram classics for the past few months. While I love them, the toes are kind of small for me so it's not the most comfortable.. While the individual toe box thing is very novel, I think I might be more a foot mitten kind of guy.

Anyway I saw some teaser photos here of one of the Minimus shoes:
http://barefootrunningshoes.org/2010/07/28/new-balance-minimus-teaser-photos-and-surprises/

i couldn't help but notice on one of the photos how there is a Vibram logo on the shoe. Did you guys team up with the FiveFinger's people?

@SkinShoes i wear Injiji socks with my Vibram FiveFingers in the winter in the San Francisco Bay Area -not as cold as MidWest or East Coast!

Nick

Hey I run http://birthdayshoes.com, which is the fan site for Vibram Five Fingers, and also covers the growing line of minimalist shoes out there -- wanted to see if there was anyway I could get a sneak peak at the minimus, so this is more of a "contact" attempt to New Balance than a comment for publishing. If someone could drop me an email that would be great!

This shoe would probably be perfect if it didn't have a drop. Honestly, if you're going to make a "minimalist" shoe, why would you go with 4mm as opposed to zero?

I agree, I run barefoot half the time and in my Five Fingers the other half depending on the terrain, and I would be very interested in supporting a New Balance minimalist shoe. But it would HAVE to be zero drop.

Greene & Russel,

I was kind of lucky to see a prototype of this shoe and if they go with the model I saw an Olympian wearing then we are in luck! There was zero drop. The pair I saw had an upper similiar to the Vibram Bikila and the bottom similar to the Terra Plana Evo. It had a waffle/honeycomb tread. If this is one of the shoes that will be coming out then we will be very happy. The bottom was not a Vibram sole like someone pointed out earlier. If NB and Vibram teamed up on a Minimalist shoe then we are truly going to have the greatest minimalist shoe ever! Can't wait to see and read more!

@Greene Have you tried out the Ninja bootie (I prefer the Split Toe) from ZEMGear? It is almost a zero drop minimalist running shoe.

@Justin, Our PR team lets me know you guys are in touch, thanks for reaching out!

@BarefootGlen, We did team up with Vibram. They were helpful in advising on how to make sure the sole unit was truly minimal, extremely lightweight and flexible. Great team over there. And more on our partnership with them to come!

How much cushioning do these have? How thick is all the material between my foot and the pavement? Why do they have any drop at all? For those of us that are full barefooters, but live in northern climates, NB would e a great go-to source for when the temp is below freezing and I have to cover up. I'd be happy to test out a pair and provide feedback. I'm a 70-mile a week barefooter ;)

Dear NB Staff: What was your "sports research lab" doing the past decade, or two, or three. Although I'm glad to see you moving towards a lower profile shoe with less cushioning, I'm just not sold on the authenticity of your motivations, except financial.

@Greene @Russell_Taylor_1 I remember reading somewhere that Skora line will be zero-drop. http://skorarunning.com - there's a prototype on their News page, see newsletter 1.

@ dominic_k, and @Russell_Taylor,
all the talk about Zero drop, not so sure it "NEEDS" to be exactly zero to work for you, and besides, the VFF are not a Zero drop either. They are a 2mm drop (10mm in heel, 8mm in forefoot)

Those measurements are for the KSO Trek. Obviously the Sprint and Classic are lower, but I still think the drop is 2mm on those as well, but I'm NOT sure.

@concernedrunner.
The NB sports research lab was created 3 years ago and they started studying the effects of barefoot running pretty much from the start. The results of the research were applied to the Minimus line.

Can someone please share where these shoes are/ will be made? Thanks.

I find it disturbing that companies like NB, Nike, Saucony, etc. tried for years to sell us all on how important arch support is. And now they're all jumping on the minimalist bandwagon? What's next, McDonald's serving low-carb, fish-oil infused chicken with pomegranate seeds?

I visited the New Balance website looking for minimalist footwear. This is a great step in the right direction! I **beg** you, dear New Balance, please offer an extra wide size. I have the feet of a bear!

Will New Balance make the new Minimus in a 4E width? I've looked at all of the current minimalist options out there (Terra Plana, Nike, etc) and I can not find a single one that has even a wide option on the width.

Dear New Balance
I am long-term fan and found that your shoes are the only ones that fit me well. I have been shifting to more forefoot running and confess to having 5 fingers (the only non-NB running shoe I own). I am also one of your testers and am enjoying the 773 a lot. I was thrilled when the MT100 came out only to find that they were not available in 2E--i tried hard to make them fit but simply could not. I even have trouble with the 904 2E which seems to run narrower than others. I hope that is fixed in the 101's and that as you plan the launch of the Minimus you keep in mind that section of consumers (many in your following) with wide feet. Widths seems to be the achilles heel of several minimalist shoes: Nike's Lunarglides, Saucony Kinvara are great shoes but just not cut for those of us with wide hoofs! Please keep us wide-footers in mind!

is the minimus available in the philippines?

Hi All - I've been digging up answers to your questions...here's what I've found out so far:

@madeyex, @JasonK, @Emanuele - We are working on delivering these shoes in widths for some time in the fall (2011). We built these shoes on a new last (wider in the toe box than our performance last to allow for the additional splay, and obviously less drop), and any new lasts, or additions to new lasts (such as widths) need to be proved out in fit testing, so we haven't nailed down timing yet, but once approved in fit testing, it will go to production.

@AndrewNYC - at present time, we're planning to produce these shoes overseas. Here's the info I got from the product team:

"Almost all of our shoes are assessed for domestic manufacturing viability. This collection currently cannot be supported by US manufacturing because of some unique constructions involved (particularly around the footbed construction that is executed without exposed interior stitching) that we don’t do in the U.S."

@biologist - you bring up a great point. These shoes aren't necessarily for everyone. Many people will still feel more comfortable using shoes that provide good arch support. With the NB Minimus line, we hope to recognize and support the important group of runners who also value a more minimalistic approach to running. That being said, your McDonald's suggestion sounds delicious! I would certainly order that from the dollar menu. ;)

@cocoy - I've got our international product manager tracking down whether or not these will be available in the Philippines. Will post an ****** as soon as I have one.

@AndrewNYC - I forgot to mention, cushioning will vary from style to style, but the Trail version will provide the least cushioning.

@RunKellyRun - I've set emails to your web contact and tester staff but still haven't heard back. I'm finishing an ebook on minimalist running shoes for Amazon Kindle and Apple iPad and would love to add Minimus and hopefully some testing time on it before I publish the book. Can someone contact me soon? Thanks!

@MinimalistRunner - let me see if I can get someone to contact you directly. And congratulations on the book, that's fantastic!

I don't really care if your motivations are financial. I love the MT100's and I'm psyched to try the Minimus and the MT101. I never had a problem with the achilles on the 100s, just lucky feet I guess. As long as the stinky glue problem is resolved I have no complaints at all. When you say the trail Minimus has the least cushioning, does that mean it will have some sort of protection plate like the 100s?

I am very happy to see that you are coming out with a more minimalist running shoe, I actually logged onto your website tonight to express my disappointment that the nb trail 100's are gaining more arch support and heel cushion. They have now become like every other shoe out there that I wont wear and I have stopped recommending them to others. I am excited to see what you come out with in march of 2011. Thanks for being willing to try something different and please stop making the heel higher than the forefoot.

Is there any reason you still keep 4mm drop? Why not make flat? I think 4mm is still thick enough that human changes foot landing unconsciously. If you take a drastic move with NB minimus, I would like to see such a design. You can go back to make a 4mm drop shoe any time.

Hi NB Staff

will this shoe be available in the UK?

Great to see more of this in the market! I'm curious to see how these turn out. Always available to provide feedback on prototypes.

Brett (barefoot and FiveFingers)
http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/UserFiles/File/Wall_Street_Journal6-6-2006.jpg

After my disappointment when the 790s were no longer in production, it's great to hear that NB is coming out with a minimal shoe! I have been in VFFs for the past year along with some other minimal shoes and barefoot running mixed in. Can't wait to try a pair of these and get on the trails here in CO. I am not sure about building a thicker upper though for cold weather running. I guess it all depends on conditions but even in winter running here in the mountains, I prefer a lighter, mesh shoe that can dry quickly and a good pair of wool socks to provide the insulation. I have found that the Injinji socks in the NuWool are some of the best but have also used socks from Smartwool.

Thanks NB for bringing these to us! Also, I think these may become a hit in the CrossFit and CrossFit Endurance community where VFFs have become very popular. Would love to get my hands on some and review them for the CF/CFE community.

I add my name to the chorus of those begging for wide widths. 4E, if possible. I'll put my money where my mouth is--if you make these in 4E I'll buy one right now, sight unseen. just tell me where to send the money and how much. Oh, and when it comes, I also promise a full and fairly ruthless review on my blog.

I would absolutely love a more traditional looking minimalist shoe! Glad that you're going with a wider toe box. Any chance of colors that don't shock the public so that I could actually wear them to work in? I'd also buy a few winter pair- some sort of breathable yet water resistant material (if that combo is even possible) for snow and slush would sell so well here!

I am quiet sure NB's motivations are financial, and that is 100% fine with me. They are a business. Businesses exist to make money. Businesses that don't make money cease to exist. Not sure why people are crying about "financial motivatiions". Please tell me when the last time was that you bought anything anywhere that did not involve financial motivations.
That being said, I stoked about the minimus line. I currently run in stability shoes and have tried barefoot and VFF running. Did not work for me, caused major pain that a year later I am still trying to get rid of. I like the idea of something minimal but still having a little bit of a traditional shoe feel (slight cushioning and small amount of drop). That is fine with me. I probably will only use them on interval sprints and keep my 903 type shoes for distance.
Thanks New Balance for listening to the market and moving toward what the market is asking for. You have my loyal support.

I would love to try these shoes. I'm an 11EE if you need a wear tester for the wide designs! I did a lot of running this year in the MT100 and loved it. I ran and won the DWD Gnaw Bone 50 Miler wearing the MT100.

Fantastic news. I am now running with NB 100 and love them for trails, roads and track intervals. Question: are you considering expanding minimalist shoes to kids sizes (say size 4 and up). My two boys 8 yr and 14 yr are avid runners now using NB 760 and they are excited about barefoot running (we already do strides barefoot on grass). Thanks and keep up the great work!

www.runningwithkids.com
twitter/running_kids

I wear a 16. What are the chances? Or will I remain beyond the targeted market group?

It is great some of the big shoe companies are finally taking those who want to run in minimal footwear seriously.

However, I would like to add my voice to the (small) chorus of voices who are very disappointed there will still be a 4mm drop. Who will be the first of the major running shoe companies to have the guts to come out with a minimal shoe that has no drop? If this line of shoes is for people "seeking a TRULY minimalist experience" (emphasis mine) then New Balance has missed the boat.

The 100s are nice for the trails, after I took off half the rubber on the bottom and shaved down the heel with sandpaper. How does a shoe with a 12mm drop ever end up being thought of as minimalist?

I will be trying Skora before the Minimus and the new Inov-8 x-talon 190 before I get a pair of the 101s.

@SCK

Going from 4mm to a zero drop shoe may have a significant impact on your running style and worst yet, injury. Don't do too much too soon.

Altra Running has a zero drop shoe coming out this Fall. I haven't tested it yet so don't know the exact impact.

MinimalistRunner- for me, going from 4mm to zero drop isn't an issue. I have already gone there. But I take your point-which is why I think it is a great thing we have shoes like the Kinvara and now Minimus, so people who are curious about trying a more minimal running shoe have some solid options without having to go "all the way" to something like the fivefingers.

I do not wish to be overly cranky, but every major shoe company who comes out with what they tout as a "minimal" shoe leaves me disappointed. Maybe one day a company like New Balance will announce something that leaves me excited. I will continue waiting.

Thanks for the tip- I will check out the Altra Running shoes, I am surprised I hadn't heard of those.

@SCK

I went from heel-striking in traditional Asics running shoes to forefoot-landing Vibram Five Fingers. It took about 9 months to adjust and fine tune my running form. But I train exclusively on grass, Astro Turf, and the local high school tartan track. For street or sidewalk running, the Vibrams are tough on my knees and calfs. I need something like Minimus, Skora, Altra, or Inov-8 for that...

I need those minimalist running shoes for my training AND racing now!

WILL THEY COME IN WIDE WIDTHS? I've worn NB for years because of my EEE width feet but have spend the last year in minimalist footwear.. NONE of the minimalist shoes come wide and the brand I now use seems to be getting narrower.

The shoes look great. I want to know what the price range will be for both the trail and road shoe. will the Minimus have a price tag that mirrors the minimal shoe or with there be a maximum to pay?

Please make size 15 narrow shoes! I wanted to get Vibrams but can't because they are too small. I'm counting on you, New Balance.

Please tell me that these will come in NARROW for MEN.
(B-width) NB is one of a FEW that realizes that not all men have fat, stubby feet (not that I mind a guy with 'big feet') :D

Thanks!

@MinimalistRUnner
If it hurts your knees, you're not doing it right. Not trying to be pedantic, but running shouldn't hurt anything. You're in Vibrams and landing too hard and not running efficiently and softly. And running in grass is not going to teach you what you are doing wrong. Try good ole asphalt and good ole barefoot. Each step will be perfect and soft, because it has to be.

@AndrewNYC
It's my age I think - running for over 30 years with orthotics and heel-to-toe striking and now midfoot-strike with minimal shoes and much better running form. My college-age son running exclusively with VFF does NOT have that problem - we both transitioned at the same time to VFF. He is in competitive cross country and track & field with midfoot-strike since he started running.

Caution:
Transitioning from traditional running shoes to minimal shoes takes time because our feet and arches are weaken by padded high-heel running shoes. That's why grass and astroturf are good running surfaces for at least 6 months. Don't run before you can walk (barefoot or minimally shod) - you will be injured. I can't stress that enough.

Hi love all those minimalist shoes, but it's quite impossible to buy here in Italy.
Hope the new MT101 and Minimus trail will be sold also in my country.
As a forefoot trail runnere I'm available to be tester and to let them know in trail races across Italy.

I like VFFs and am trying the MT100s now - they are just too narrow in the toes ie. pointed. They squash my toes together. I prefer a more squared-off toe box.
Looking forward to the wider toe box. Also put my vote down for a colder weather option. Also wondering why bother with any drop at all?

Hi All - for those looking for more info on the NB Minimus collection, we just posted an article that contains new interviews with NB athlete and ultramarathoner Tony Krupicka and NB Minimus designer Chris Wawrousek on how they collaborated on the design of the shoes. You can find that article here:

http://www.newbalance.com/performance/tony-krupicka-and-chris-wawrousek-talk-about-the-evolution-of-nb-minimus/

As for those asking for wide widths, I am passing on all of your requests to our product team. It's important to us that we answer your needs, and it's good to hear the requests for them! While the plan is to have the NB Minimus collection in widths for Fall 2011, there may be an opportunity to do some wear testing for those who have expressed interest. I'll be in touch with more information.

@iRun - suggested retail for the NB Minimus collection will be $100

@runningwithkids - we currently don't have plans to extend the NB Minimus collection to kids shoes, but we are looking at how minimalism can be incorporated to many areas of our product offerings, so never say never! :)

@runswithquadruplets - first, in reference to your handle (screenname), I have to say congrats, that's amazing! Second, unfortunately these shoes will only go up to a men's size 14 with the March release, but I will pass on the request for larger sizes to the product team to let them know there are people looking for them!

@ElizabethA - there will be some more traditional colors available. We'll be posting photos as we get our hands on them to this Flickr set here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/love_running_more/sets/72157624838621079/

@dazza64 - these will be available in the UK

@sat - First, thank you for your feedback, it's great to hear the dialog from those who are passionate about this space. I spoke to our product team about your question in particular and they did consider doing a 0mm drop shoe, however, after taking a look at the market, they felt the shoe they developed filled a gap that wasn't currently being answered. They strove to create a shoe for those who would like a more minimalist shoe, but aren't quite looking to go all the way to a 0mm drop. That said, they agree that it is still one of the possibilities for future product.

Thanks again to everyone for participating in the conversation with us. We're excited to continue to share info with you on our progress!

Please address MY question re: sizing- and that was not for 'wide' it was for NARROW.

Size 10(B)- NARROW (Men's)

I am happy to test them for you if you need, but I noticed that my question was not answered.

Sorry, I don't have quadruplets or twins or anything.

Thanks-
@stevedotmartin on the twitter

@RunKellyRun

The photos on Flickr, those are Minimus Trail shoes, right? Anything on Minimus Road?

@SdotM - my apologies! In my above comment I should not have put "wide" before widths. I am passing along the requests for both wide and narrow to the product group. We group both wide and narrow widths under the general term of "widths". Thanks for the catch!

@MinimalistRunner - yes, those are the trail shoes and I'll be posting pics of the road shoes (both men's & women's) and the women's trail shoe to that set later today. Stay tuned!! :)

@RunKellyRun
Awesome - thanks!

Thank you and please also thank the design/production staff for making NARROW (B) to begin with in ANY style!

I do hope that these also are produced in NARROW- however.

All the best-
@stevedotmartin on the twitter

:D

Another vote for zero drop in a trail shoe for winter running.
I'm 6'3", 220lbs and do all my running barefoot or in VFF's. You DON'T need ANY heel drop if you are doing it right!
Thanks for noticing the minimalists!

I'm a little confused. If I understand correctly, the minimus line of shoes are all going to have a 4mm heel elevation? Why?
If this is true, it is very disappointing! Why can't they have a true zero heel elevation. Isn't the whole point to be minimal and allow the barefoot to function as it is naturally intended? !! I want a shoe that will protect my foot but not alter my foot position/function.

To New Balance :
PLEASE consider making a minimus model with a ZERO heel drop! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE !!
You did everything right except for this one critical design flaw !

Another vote for zero drop.

Since it's only 4mm, can the drop (heel elevation) be made on the insole, so that those who want some can put in a "Heelevation® Sole" and those who prefer none can use a neutral one? Maybe this is not possibru, I AM NOT A SHOE SCIENTIST!

@runkellyrun - I'm living in Italy, I couldn't buy MT100 cause NB doesn't sell it in my country, do you know if NB is planning to change his policy and sell the minimus and the MT101 also in Europe and of course in Italy? Here trail running is growing fast among the runners, barefoot running is getting more interest but the market for trail running shoes is almost for only one brand. Not a bad idea trying to show runners something completely new and with a different approach from all the others shoes on the market.

in line with the previous comment by @Jorunforfun - i'd really love to see the minimus line and the mt101 being sold in europe! e.g. an online shopping opportunity would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance for considering that.

@RunKellyRun
I know you said that NB was making widths, but just in case it only goes up to 2E. PLEASE make a 4E model!!! It would make my life amazingly awesome to be able to fit into the minimus'. This is THE only company I buy from because this is THE only company that can make shoes that fit me well. I hope NB can make the width release date March as well. Or heck, just start selling them all now! :)

Thanks :)

The two promo designs I've seen are gorgegous! I love the electric blue and yellow combination (www.runblogger.com/2010/07/new-balance-minimu...). I'm excited for them to come out on the market! Please keep the bright colours. It is frustrating needing new running shoes, but not finding a pair that matches or goes beyond your last pair not only functionally but aesthically as well.

@MinimalistRunner

"Caution:
Transitioning from traditional running shoes to minimal shoes takes time because our feet and arches are weaken by padded high-heel running shoes. That's why grass and astroturf are good running surfaces for at least 6 months. Don't run before you can walk (barefoot or minimally shod) - you will be injured. I can't stress that enough."

This is exactly incorrect. The best surface is asphalt. You cannot learn proper form without the FULL feedback of a hard surface. Asphalt is consistent. Running in grass and on astroturf, one can continue to do the very same things wrong they did when shod. I see this in runners here who are heel striking in their Vibrams. This is not just my opinion, this is very accepted by those of us who have logged thousands of miles barefoot. Running in grass and on soft surfaces is basically like running in shoes. Not to mention the risk of a puncture wound is higher in grass because you cannot see objects. Everyone wants to go incrementally to barefoot, but it is best started that way. you are learning how to run correctly, why mask feedback by running on soft surfaces? You have to learn how to run softly. Create softness, don't seek softness.

@AndrewNYC

One does not transition from traditional cushioned running shoes to Vibrams on asphalt immediately. I did that and got injured. And I guarantee that for any heel striker who transition to midfoot/forefoot striking in Vibrams.

I agree asphalt is great for proprioception but only if your feet is ready. And the majority of US recreational runners are not.

The problem is, you went from shod, to vibram. If you go cushioned shoe to barefoot, it's clearly much better. You were likely injured because Vibrams also mask things that you are doing wrong because there is a layer between you and your surface (you can then get away with sheering, slipping, twisting and other things that are bad for you). I agree that asphalt is great when your feet are ready, but running on a soft surface allows you to do the same thing wrong you've always done. Heck, you can heel strike on grass, what does that teach you? On asphalt, and in bare feet, you can never run farther than you are ready, because you will get the feedback that something is wrong. When you wear Vibrams, or any shoes, or run on grass, you can outrun how good your form is. This is fundamental, and much discussed on runningbarefoot.org

@ MinimalistRunner

"One does not transition from traditional cushioned running shoes to Vibrams on asphalt immediately."

You're right about that. You should go completely barefoot. I did that and have no injuries. How could I? The first few runs were half a mile, my feet wouldn't let me run more than that.

I'm gonna have to chime in with AndrewNYC on this one. Your Vibrams let you run farther than you should have. You would not have made that mistake had you been completely barefoot. Also, when you're completely bare, you are bloody careful, you don't let your focus drop.

I have heard the Minimus will only be available in stores (not online) and require some sort of instructions for use. Is this accurate? This will create some considerable difficulty for those of use who live in rural areas that have very limited running shoe stores (in my case 1, and they don't carry NB). Been wearing the 790's for the past 1.5 years and look forward to the Minimus. Could someone from NB please comment about this. Thanks

I have heard that the Minimus will not be available on line, but only in stores. I live in a rural community with one running store; that does not carry NB. Also, heard that to purchase Minimus the buyer will need to participate in a brief presentation about the shoe before it can be purchased. Thanks for addressing this as I am a NB user and would like to progress from the 790's to the Minimus. Thanks again.

@dpadgo The NB Minimus collection will be available on shopnewbalance.com in March. Looking forward to hearing your feedback if you give them a shot!

@RunKellyRun Are you posting more pictures of Minimus on Flickr?

Hm. I must say, it probably is a good idea to sell the Minimuses (Minimae?) with a set of instructions. Like a little booklet 'How To Run Sans Cushioning' with illustrations of the forefoot/midfoot landing, bent knees and whatnot. I've seen people run in the Nike Frees, and they always run with a lock-kneed heel strike. (The Frees do have a lot of cushioning, though, so maybe that's fine).

And also encourage moderation in the start, maybe suggest a progression plan that starts with a quarter mile three times a week and slowly goes up to the six mile mark or something. I was not already a runner when I started running barefoot last spring, so for me such a slow progression was not an issue, but I've come to understand it can be for someone who are used to running 20 miles a week. I don't know if it's a good idea to mix Minimus running with Brooks Beast running, but maybe you can find this out and write a few words on starting "cushionless running" from scratch vs from an avid running lifestyle.

And by the way, having seen the new pics of the Minimus, I retract what I said about there being "absolutely no chance that I will purchase this shoe". It looks awesome, you guys.

Another vote for 0 drop. I am trying to acclimate to barefoot running to help my form and I don't want a shoe that is going to interfere with my form when I need to give the bottom of my feet a break.

Sometimes caution is not necessary. If you are going to do it, do it right... if you want to be ahead of the curve; not behind it playing catch up. Especially when there is no logic behind the built up heel. It's just some kind of mental block the shoe mfrs have to get over.

Despite all that, I do wish it was available right now. I would love to try the trail for the winter. The heel may not be a huge issue for me yet (not 100% sure, but I definitely can't stand my NB905 heel already). By the time 6 months rolls around and these are finally released I do worry that it will be too late and the heel drop will most definitely be a major issue for me and I will have moved on to bigger and better things :) Sorry.

Any plans for large sizes for women, i.e. a 12? Men's are on a wider last and so Nikes and End are the only two I've found to fit (aside from the 5-finger).

Also--would love to have an option where I could toss my orthotic in to run bc I really need it; if there's no insole to pull out, does that mean there's an arch built into the shoe bottom?

I would love to see a minimalist shoe that you can put an orthotic in. Sounds contradictory, but min shoes fit me way better...And yes, I've built up my feet and such best they can but can't run w/o the orthotic. :)

@wenph, you're right it is contradictory. Why were you prescribed orthotics? They are heavily overprescribed, and I've yet to see any published research that shows outcomes on using them. Since going barefoot, I also got rid of my orthotics. And I can now run without any pain or problems (I ran the entire Chicago Marathon on 10-10-10 fully barefoot and was able to run the next morning without soreness or pain). There are certainly a handful of people that cannot run barefoot (estimates run around 3% or people). Barefoot running (and to a lesser extent, NB Minimus) are about fixing form. The vast majority of the time if running hurts, it is something the runner is doing wrong.

These shoes are great.

When they come out will they look like the ones in the video with Anton in it?

Will they be available in Australia?

Will the women's version look similar to the men's version?

@RunKellyRun

Hi!
I've seen the question has been already asked, but as i couldn't find any reply here it goes again :) : will the Minimus be available in all Europe ? What about Italy?

Thank you very much!

I’ve spent the last few months slowly transitioning to VFFs. The human foot is softer than rubber and our ancestors did not run on paved roads. Also, hard rubber & dense treads slapping the pavement creates violent vibrations that are not good for the ligaments and tendons adjacent... including the bones of the forefoot, especially in the beginning of conditioning. Even then, I have serious doubts people’s feet are going to be holding up after 5 or 10 years of this. One group of injuries are likely to get replaced with another.

And it's not the lack of any cushioning that allows a more balanced foot strike, but the heel height being lower and the shape & flexibility of the sole. If you were using VFFs on grass or sand, it wouldn't alter your ability to do this. Understand? A little cushioning, assuming it doesn't terribly affect the drop, is a good idea for asphalt. So softer rubber (or other outsole material) helps with vibration, and some cushioning in the midsole or insole can add additional vibration isolation and distribute impact forces... especially to protect the forefoot.

I still think these minimalist, non-toe shoes look a little too rocket-like for my taste, but it's an enormous improvement over decades of mostly junk shoe companies have previously peddled. The asymmetry and real human shape is starting to be evident, over the pseudoscience and old wives tales of the past. I've hated most shoes since I was a child. I hated heels. I hated pointy toes that weren't shaped like a foot. I hated the stiffness, the lack of ventilation in some, and the arch support. I just sort of griped and bought wide and larger, without it ever being natural. My latest pair of Asics have hoof-shaped heels. I am not a horse!

One day I got so fed with the injuries and discomfort from jogging. Now that I'm over 30, my body does not heal as quickly, and slight signs of disfigurement are starting to show, as things don't repair themselves afterwards exactly as they were before. I didn’t even know what bunions and 1st toe deviation was. I started looking for solutions. Nike tried some things in 1995, but mostly abandoned it except in special limited editions. How was I to know a major change was happening in footwear? We are witnessing history, folks. Woody had it right in the final episode of Cheers, after all!

When will they be available in Australia.
I would also like some wider Minimus shoes I need to get my NB 2EE shoes for the internet because most places do not stock 2EE fitting hsoes in Australia.

Would love to try out some demo shoes in the heat and Hills of NSW if any chance at all of that happening.

@Reticuli: You are simply wrong about the foot not being able to withstand asphalt. It's simply not the case. And there are people that have been running barefoot on pavement as long as you have suggested would be deleterious to ones health. Me, I've only run about 3,000 smooth pain free miles barefoot on pavement, so I'm a beginning. Try running fully barefoot and get ALL the feedback you need to perfect the poor form we've learned by running in shoes. That's REAL HISTORY. After you've learned the proper mechanics, then you can run minimally. The greater the cushioning, the greater the impact. As found by the University of Oregon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIT7t2jtdP0

Hi Andrew,

Kennewick Man wore sandals. Evidence of primitive shoes and sandals on modern humans go back at least 40,000 years, and our cousins/partial-ancestors the Neanderthals probably wore them, too. And respectfully, a few testimonials from professed hard surface barefoot runners doesn't amount to evidence of longterm, mass foot health anymore than people at a religious revival who've seen the face of Jesus in a taco. For every genuine barefooter, there's likely several times that many who have been, or would be, unsuccessful. It's like Oprah trying to get people to buy the book The Secret and have everyone believe all their dreams will happen because hers did. She's likely the exception. Man has probably had footwear since he's had tools and tattoos. True, some native ethnic peoples in certain climates and terrain/vegetation do not use anything, but you can't generalize from that. Vibram has already started figuring this out, which is why their newest FFs are adding strategically placed padding. I’m not defending traditional shoes, either. I hate them. I’m even pretty disappointed in the older Air Rifts. Heels are too high. Little toe area too narrow. Big toe still arcs inward too much. Still more rocket-shape than triangle/foot shape.

Now, running completely barefoot on smooth city asphalt or sidewalk (or in a lab) seems to reduce the impact on your knees, hips, and vertical load-bearing bones. Yeah, I've seen that research before. That's one of the reasons I got into VFFs. Being I'm only an hour from UofO, I can tell you people cannot run truly barefoot (the verb your clubs have invented ;-P) on many of these rural asphalt roads. They're coated on top with an extremely rough & sharp granular layer, in some cases literally ground up recycled glass. Actually, the glass topped areas tend to be smoother than the nasty stuff used on most of the asphalt to allow it to wear slower under logging trucks and with ice/rain. You can't even walk barefoot on most of it... I tried. And that's not to mention the massive amounts of large gravel chunks spilling onto it from the side roads. Not just a few rocks here or there you can avoid. What I'm talking about in terms of vibration are totally cushion-less barefoot-style shoes… but not being barefoot. If you're really barefoot (no VFFs) and the asphalt/cement is appropriate for it, the soft cushioning of your bare feet do not create nasty vibrations. Your feet padding is softer than silicone or thermoplastic gel. But I assure you, even your toughened skin is probably not up the task of jogging the Elgarose Loop.

I agree the UofO work is useful for understanding knee, hip, larger vertical bone stresses with how we utilize the bends of our legs with & without excessive cushioning and change our impact form, but I am still highly skeptical of the long-term effects of hard surface barefooting, and especially so with cushion-less older VFFs.

Please make them in WIDE sizes. Thanks!

@Reticuli
Skepticism is a good thing. I hope you bring the same amount to the current methods as you do to those you are being skeptical about. I haven't seen any research that establishes that shoes lead to lower injury rates, or cushioning actually reduces impact. I only know that the current method of wearing shoes has injury rates that seem exorbitant given that we are designed specifically for this activity. I understand some surfaces are very difficult. At first, old patches of pavement were tricky for me. Now, I can run on pavement, gravel and old pavement. Some surfaces will never be barefoot friendly, and for those, I wear cover, but not cushioning. You're more than welcome to study all this, in the meantime, I've discovered a method of running that my body tells me is better (NO SORENESS AFTER A MARATHON!) and is certainly more joyful.

barefoot andy

@Reticuli

As for the asphalt roughness problem, I do agree. There are certain types of old asphalt made from sharp pebbles and where the bitumen have worn away to expose a jagged surface found naturally occurring pretty much nowhere. When it hurts to stand on it, there is no way you're going to be able to run softly enough for it not to hurt. That's why I never run without my sandals in my back pocket, except if i know the route I'm running will be smooth all the way.

As for padding, I think you're wrong. Simply because so many have experienced what I've experienced, that more cushioning means more impact. Of course, this is building on (if I understand you correctly) your assumption that impacts=bad. This is also what Nike, NB, Asics and the rest have been implicitly telling us by pushing high heels to runners for thirty years.

Anecdote time: Sometimes when I run I wear my noise canceling headphones (Bose QC15). What they do is they have a microphone that listens to ambient noise and replay it in reverse amplitude to create the net sum of silence. However, if I step hard on something, the microphone picks up the impact, tries to cancel it and I hear a *thmp*. And the more shoe I wear, the harder it is to run softly enough to not get that thmp. With shoes, even when all my senses are telling me that I'm running softly, I cannot for the life of me avoid that sound. When I wear my sandals, they're a bit tricky to avoid. When I run barefoot it's not an issue.

The point here is that with shoes, even when I think I run as soft as anything, there is still a wave of impact reverberating through my body, severe enough to be picked up by a microphone attached to my head. So if you want as little impact as possible, go bare.

Now, some podiatrists have flipped this around, and are saying that some impact is actually good because impacts stimulate increased bone density. I cannot say that I disagree, but it is my (uneducated) belief that an active lifestyle will provide more than enough bone stimulating strain.

@AndrewNYC

>...seem exorbitant given that we are designed specifically for this activity.

Are you referring to Lieberman's theory that we were running animals to death for thousands of years? Because that whole theory hinges on the fact that we had to have been catching animals for aeons (we needed the proteins) before the earliest evidence of spears and arrows, and that therefore we must have had some other way of hunting animals. Of course, the only remains of a hundred thousand year old spear would be its stone tip. The stone tipped spear may have been a vast improvement over the pointed stick, but very unlikely the first iteration of such a weapon. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and I find it unreasonable to assume that since no wooden artifact from a hundred thousand years ago have been found, they did not have it.

Maybe we were born to run, but as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out.

The roads are not old, worn asphalt. In Oregon, roads get paved often, but many rural ones are meant for heavy logging trucks and ice. It's very different stuff out here compared to in town or on sidewalks. They are intentionally finished that way. I successfully walked a little less than a mile once on it. Awful experience. Yes, just standing on it is uncomfortable. I wish they would just do it without adding that grit to the top and rolling over it again. The end result is a gray, gritty looking finish like looking at sand paper through a magnifying glass, compared to a black, smooth one.

My middle toes are short and delicate, including the bones connected to them further towards the ankle. Gals say I have pretty feet ;-) or had until I started getting a bunion like thing on my right foot from normal sneakers. I know one of the differentiation factors between shod and unshod cultures is that the latter's gene pools tend to have more robust middle toes, as well as a life time of stress that further strengthens them: definitely higher bone thickness & density. That's one of the ways for determining this in the anthropological record, too. I'm wondering what you successful barefooters' toes are like.

These look near perfect, except for the 4mm drop. It strikes me as a worst of all worlds compromise that won't make anyone happy. Folks who have gone minimal and like it will hate the drop. Those who run now in high-heeled sneakers will still hurt themselves. Why the heck not build a zero-drop shoe and offer a couple of different insoles, with and without lift? Make everyone happy, instead of no one. Reduce tooling costs. Make stupid high profits selling insoles. C'mon, it's a no-brainer.

I only run in shoes during the winter or on abusive sharp mountain trails. Huaraches work great in the mountains, so all I really need a shoe for is winter. If these were available today, I'd probably buy a pair. By next fall, I expect that these will be also-rans. Sorry. So close. Bummer.

Gordo

I assume the insole is sewn in to make the shoe easier to wash and better control the intended "feel". Is a 4mm drop really that big a deal? Looking at that small a gap between my two fingers doesn't seem like that much.

If you really need a completely minimalist shoe for the winter, why don't you try a water/surfing shoe made out of warm but breathable neoprene upper (some have a split tabi toe) or the Vibram Flow? There really isn't a shortage of options.

Speaking of split toes, did you guys/gals know Asics made a low-drop Marathon Tabi in like the 1950s and brought it out again in, I think, 2004 briefly? Onitsuka Tiger, was the original company. Funny how Asics doesn't have much going on in the toe or minimalist arena now but did a few years ago before it got big. Ditto with Nike. At least some companies listen to their costumers, right?

It will be interesting to see how the companies that are slower to respond to this trend actually adapt to the marketplace when they see the change in numbers in the next year. Will they re-release previously discontinued designs? Will they improve them, or start from scratch?

"I assume the insole is sewn in to make the shoe easier to wash and better control the intended "feel". "

Not normally. When I used to run in motion control shoes, I always replaced the factory insoles with a quality insole or orthotic in a futile effort to keep injuries at bay. I don't know about the Minimus.

"Is a 4mm drop really that big a deal? Looking at that small a gap between my two fingers doesn't seem like that much."

It changes how my foot hits the ground. That makes it a big deal to me. It took me a couple of years to get to the point where just having something between my foot and the ground didn't cause me problems. At this point, I expect that I could probably run in them. If they were available today, I'd buy a pair. I also need a shoe like this for walking and hiking. I heel strike lightly without shoes. 4mm will change that significantly. The other issue is the cushioning used to get the drop. The more padding under my heel, the more problems I have with plantar fasciitis. It went away when I ditched the shoes. I really don't want it back.

"If you really need a completely minimalist shoe for the winter, why don't you try a water/surfing shoe made out of warm but breathable neoprene upper (some have a split tabi toe) or the Vibram Flow? There really isn't a shortage of options."

I've tried all of those options, plus moccasins. Each has it's drawback. The versatility of a real shoe with real tread would be nice, as the weather changes fast out here and elevation and exposure change trail conditions a lot on any given run.

"Speaking of split toes, did you guys/gals know Asics made a low-drop Marathon Tabi in like the 1950s and brought it out again in, I think, 2004 briefly? Onitsuka Tiger, was the original company. "

Yes. I've been looking for a pair.

"Funny how Asics doesn't have much going on in the toe or minimalist arena now but did a few years ago before it got big. Ditto with Nike. At least some companies listen to their costumers, right?"

Until "Born to Run", Lieberman, and Five Fingers, everyone thought you needed cushioning to run. Including me. Companies that listened to their customers didn't hear any requests for minimal shoes. Nike was started with the premise that runners run heel-toe. They have no minimal shoes, IMO. I guess I don't get your point.

Nike's minimal offerings aren't. Asics Tai-Chi are minimal, but don't have any traction. Mizuno Wave Universe 3 is a good road shoe if you don't mind the drop. Inov-8 makes a nice looking shoe, the X-Talon 190. It's what I'll buy if this winter gets ugly, but it's got more padding than I want under the heel and I'm unsure about the fit of the toe-box. I'll crutch along with neoprene and moccasins as long as I can. Once March gets here, it looks like I'll have lots of good options, so I hate to drop a bunch of money on something I won't want long-term.

Gordo

"The end result is a gray, gritty looking finish like looking at sand paper through a magnifying glass, compared to a black, smooth one."

It's called chip seal. It sucks. After about 5 miles barefoot on it, I'm done. It is the best running form coach in the world, however.

"I know one of the differentiation factors between shod and unshod cultures is that the latter's gene pools tend to have more robust middle toes, as well as a life time of stress that further strengthens them: definitely higher bone thickness & density. That's one of the ways for determining this in the anthropological record, too."

I don't think genetics plays much of a role compared to usage and plentiful vitamin D. Growing up afraid of the sun and constantly shod in poorly designed shoes will mess your feet up. Bones toughen with use. At any age.

" I'm wondering what you successful barefooters' toes are like."

Mine are getting stronger, but will never match those of someone who grew up barefoot. My big toes point inward, and since I'm over 50, I don't expect them ever to recover. At least I can run again. I missed it so badly that I hurt myself over and over again trying. I tried everything. I was so desperate that I eventually tried barefoot. :) I've now exceeded my longest injury-free stretch of running since 1985 by almost three years. I'm doing ten-milers barefoot on trails. If I could solve the snow and ice problem, I'd have the world by the tail.

Gordo

Hi All,

First, thanks for the awesome conversation. I've been following along and it's been so interesting to hear everyone's perspectives.

To clarify a few things, I wanted to mention that

1. None of the NB Minimus shoes has any insole at all. There is no additional cushioning provided inside the shoe.

2. In the trail version, you will find virtually no cushioning in the heel. Most of the drop comes from the rugged Vibram outsole designed for traction during trail running.

It's great to hear the feedback from people wanting a zero drop shoe. There's been a lot of debate about that over here as well, and after some extensive testing in our Sports Lab (new article here: http://www.newbalance.com/performance/running/millimeters-and-midfoot-strike/ ), and working with Anton & Kyle, the technicians determined that when making the transition from a traditional shoe (generally a 12mm drop) to a more minimal shoe, a 4mm drop provided the least amount of drop, while still allowing runners more accustomed to traditional shoes to transition without an excessive amount of pain/soreness. In other words, going from 12mm to 0mm, runners had a much longer and more painful transition than going from 12mm-4mm.

That said, we are with you that there's a strong desire in the market for a 0mm drop shoe. The next round of NB Minimus prototypes are already in development and that's something they're looking at very closely.

Regardless of a 0mm drop or a 4mm drop though - and I'm sure you guys can relate - it's important to note for runners getting into the minimalist movement, that the transition takes time, and it should be gradually worked in to your running schedule. I'm curious for those of you who are already there...how long did it take you to transition? How did you get into it, and what did you experience?

"... it's important to note for runners getting into the minimalist movement, that the transition takes time, and it should be gradually worked in to your running schedule. I'm curious for those of you who are already there...how long did it take you to transition? How did you get into it, and what did you experience?"

Absolutely. As someone who started at age 48, I can attest to the time required. I needed years. I have a friend my age who did it in six months. She was a regular runner, although she had to limit herself to running every third day to keep injury at bay. Everyone is very different. You absolutely cannot do it on a schedule.

I got into it via the back door. I wasn't running at all. I was in one of my "gave it up forever, I'm not built for running" periods. I had plantar fasciitis so bad that I kept a pair of shoes with orthotics in them next to the bed for when I had to pee in the middle of the night. I got so fed up that I started doing my own research instead of listening to the podiatrist. Strengthen my feet? Sure, I'll give it a try. I didn't have a thing to lose. After a few months of foot exercises, the PF is nearly gone. Since walking barefoot on uneven ground is a great foot exercise, I was doing that. In the winter. In Colorado. Did I mention that I was desperate? Snow drifts in the back yard shady spots made post walk icing really easy.

I had read a bit about these crazies that actually ran barefoot. Since the exercise thing worked so well, I decided to try it. It worked. I could do it. I felt like I was six years old again. At the beginning of summer vacation. So of course the first thing I did was go way too far, way too fast and hurt myself. I didn't care. It was progress. I could run again if I was smart about it.

I approached the whole project as rehabilitation, rather than training. I learned to read the warning signs my body sent when I needed rest. I limited my training to what my body could handle. I worked through lots of strength and flexibility issues. I'm not done yet. But I'm having a blast. I can run again. Every run is a gift.

Things I learned:

Form is critical, is learned, and can be improved. The best way to improve your form is to run barefoot on the most uncomfortable surface that you can stay relaxed on. That's barefoot. Not minimal. Everyone wants to transition down. It's a mistake, IMO. I bought a pair of the very first Five Fingers. An experiment that convinced me was to switch between BF and VFFs on the same run. It made a difference in my form. I decided on the spot to run exclusively barefoot until I mastered it. It worked.

Watch the Terra Plana video with Lee Saxby.

Don't try to land forefoot. Don't hold your heels off the ground. You will hurt yourself. Forefoot landings happen when you do everything else right. Relax your feet and observe them.

The same holds for cadence. Don't force it.

Gordo

More advice.

Don't go overboard. What I did was decide to never wear shoes with any support ever again. That was a mistake. Your feet will get tired. Really tired. You haven't used those muscles in decades. Putting a shoe with arch support on can give them a much needed rest. Aim to wean yourself away from arch support and heel lift. Remember, it's a rehab project, not a religion.

Run on concrete, asphalt, dirt, gravel, and grass. In that order. Concrete is the easiest surface to barefoot on and it's where beginners should start. Grass, while fun, is an advanced surface. It has a lot of hidden irregularities and is hard to run well on at first. Grass hides sharp objects. Having a strong relaxed foot when you land on such is a lifesaver.

Once your feet get tough enough to let you run on chip seal without tensing up, it is the best running coach in the world. It hurts to do it wrong. We are hard-wired to learn quickly from pain. Not fun, but effective. Mild pain only, it's not about being tough. Being tough will get you hurt.

Glass, nails, and dog turds are highly over rated hazards. You learn really quickly to automatically avoid most hazards. A relaxed foot and clean form allows you to land on almost any piece of glass and not get cut.

Shoes are useful. I went through a period when I decided I didn't need anything but barefoot plus moccasins. That's over. Shoes are really useful in lots of different situations. Not all are running situations, but a minimal running shoe would work for all of them. Off-trail hiking is one example. The Minimus Trail looks like it could be a dandy hiking boot. I am not kidding. I backpack barefoot, but the off-trail stuff really requires a shoe. At least in the desert/high plains. Deep woods are fine barefoot.

Gordo

Great post to direct this conversation toward a more meaningful tone.

If I could go back and do this all over again (over 18 months ago) I probably still would have purchased the Vibram Sprints just because I'm an eccentric and thought they were so cool. I was also burned badly by the long history of built up shoes that did me no good on the knees or running form. Naturally, when I took off my shoes completely and ran barefoot in the park for the first time, everything seemed to click. It was so natural to me. I knew from then on that I could never run in a traditional running shoe ever again to achieve that same sensation and ground feel.

Having said that, I never considered myself a runner before experimenting with barefoot running. It took me a long while to be able to start a new day WITHOUT sore arches and calves. Even when the arches got strong enough (about 7 or 8 months) that I didn't feel sore in the morning, my ankles would still feel sore to the point of a slight stabbing pain when I put my feet up on the coffee table and let them relax (natural right? not when you're transitioning). So you ask, would I have purchased a pair of shoes with some heel to help reduce the stress on my transition? Probably not. I was convinced that heels were the devil, that anything thicker than about 10mm was way too much shoe, and Nike was all to blame. I've since learned that well made shoes are designed to aid the runner and that the runner dictates his/her own injuries through proper form and training. Key word in that sentence is a well made shoe. To me that means a short list of basics a shoe should follow:

1. be relatively flat
2. not have a lot of cushioning if any at all
3. sole no thicker than 10mm
4. be flexible enough to move naturally with the foot
5. no supports or motion control
6. WIDE toebox (I have EE feet)
7. and hug the foot comfortably (not too loose in the fit)

So with those parameters in mind, I would totally suggest this shoe to a friend of mine who wants to transition to minimalist shoes. We had this discussion shortly during a 7 mile run yesterday morning. I've got my sights set on the trail shoe, but for the road, I think I want something more minimalist. For racing though, I might consider this shoe for the thicker sole (wide toe box is huge sale point for me).

Agreed with Gordo in that a bit of heel or arch support can aid in helping your sore recovering muscles during that "rehab" stage of running. Especially if you're a victim to PF or AT (you would know what those acronyms mean if you had it).

@Jantzen I disagree that heel and arch support are ever good. If your muscles are sore they are either telling you that a) you are doing it wrong, or b) you aren't ready to run again. more than likely a). The beuaty of barefoot is that it is self limiting. There's nothing better for PF than barefoot. let the muscle strengthen. As far as AT, that's a sign of improper form. Bend those knees and stop pushing off the ground.

Also, why 10mm of sole? Why not 0mm? or 2mm? The more sole, the less feedback, the less feedback, the worse the form.

Well, I've never actually run with anything thicker than the Bikilas, 7mm, but BFT's Leadville huaraches are 10mm thick for trail so I'm assuming that's an appropriate thickness. A friend of mine has bad PF and flat feet and finds that his arch supports are still necessary during his therapy stage of rehabilitating his feet. I have no experience in this, but it seems to make sense if you're in serious pain. I mean, you're gonna feel some pain during the exercises and stretches for PF, but afterward I can imagine it hurting even worse.

I'll comment on the arch support/heel lift thing since I brought it up.

What do you do when your feet get tired? Sit down? For the rest of the day? When you're rehabilitating weak arches, even standing works them. Walking works them. I tried being tough. I only managed stupid. :) If you don't have weak arches, by all means lose the arch support forever. I'd been in orthotics for more than twenty years. My arches were pathetic.

As to heel lift, I'm torn. Not having suffered AT, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. When walking and standing, I would lean to as little lift as possible so that the tendon will heal in a more elongated state. At some point, however, you're just pissing it off and making it more inflamed. That's counterproductive.

Gordo

A lot of people run barefoot on trails, I wouldn't assume that BFT has the right answer, I would find what you are comfortable with. If you are in serious pain, something is seriously wrong and you shouldn't be running at all. Nothing about running should even cause moderate pain. We've all accepted that running is hard on one's body, but I don't ascribe to that.

"A lot of people run barefoot on trails, I wouldn't assume that BFT has the right answer, I would find what you are comfortable with. If you are in serious pain, something is seriously wrong and you shouldn't be running at all. Nothing about running should even cause moderate pain. We've all accepted that running is hard on one's body, but I don't ascribe to that."


There are trails and there are trails ...

I run on trails. Rocky trails. All the time. I love it. But ... there are trails that I can't BF on. There are trails that I can BF, but only slowly. There are trails that I can BF until I start getting tired. Then it starts to hurt.

Have you ever run or hiked around Leadville? There is a lot of really sharp, freshly fractured rock. The worst pieces are embedded and don't move when you land on them. Now consider running 100 miles of that stuff. In a race. When you're exhausted. In the dark. You need something on your feet. Something fairly substantial.

BFT has been doing this for a long time. Studying it. If he designs something for Leadville, assuming that he's pretty close to the mark is fairly safe, IMO. I would say that setting a tentative maximum sole thickness equal to Ted's Leadville sandals is a great starting point.

I don't know whether Jason has access to the kind of trail that requires such humongous padding. Finding his own limit may not be possible. Give him a break.

All that said, I agree that 10mm is way too much for all but the gnarliest trails and the longest runs. Half that is probably sufficient for the average gnarly trail.

Gordo

"All that said, I agree that 10mm is way too much for all but the gnarliest trails and the longest runs. Half that is probably sufficient for the average gnarly trail."

I would agree. But of course, the bigger issue than thickness is hardness. 5mm of sock is not the same as 5mm of hard plastic. But I know what you mean about the gnarly ones. Although I don't agree that BFT has anymore idea that is what for you or anyone else. Using this forum as an example, there are many that cannot even run fully barefoot on asphalt, even though it's best for you.

"But of course, the bigger issue than thickness is hardness"

Very good point. I get the feeling that Ted likes a softer sole than I. Probably because his form is better. I still need a solid connection to the ground or my form starts to degrade.

Gordo

@Gordo, I think harder is worse. It causes worse form. Think about posture walking in socks versus loafers. In loafers you rely and lean on the flex of the sole as opposed to allowing the foot to use its own structure and muscles. Just some thoughts.

That comparison doesn't work for me. Socks are so soft and thin that they might as well not be there. I'd rather compare, say EVA or Cherry to leather or climbing shoe rubber of the same thickness. Comparing your loafers to a leather soled sandal, for instance. The sturdier materials allow my foot to react naturally to weighting and I feel lighter and quicker. The soft materials slow my stride and I feel higher impact forces. The stiffer material also does a much better job of smoothing out sharp rocks and still keeping me connected to the ground. Either way, it sounds like neither of us like the loafers.

Gordo

You two pose as perfect examples of how we differ on what works best for each of us as individuals. I don't believe we all fit into a cookie cutter mould, but there are many similarities among us. And those similarities are what help us bond together as a species.

Actually, I think that we're in agreement. Neither of us likes mush underfoot. Only semantics stands in the way.

Gordo

Jantzen, I would add to your list along side reduced drop (definitely not over 5mm or 10mm (a full cm does seem too much, to me personally) and sole flexibility:

8. Rounded sole edges... I guess that's similar to removing "motion control", though. ???

9. A narrow heel area for the foot to go in. "Wide" shoes too often mean wider heel areas, which is usually not needed... even on wide feet. My cmx400no 4E pair of New Balance are just like they were stretched horizontally from top to bottom. I've never heard of anyone complaining about insufficient heel width inside the shoe.

10. A toe area that's shaped like an actual foot, whether it has split toe, individual toes, or it's all a shared pocket. I personally prefer split toe as a nice compromise and minimum to prevent deviation & bunions, but to each their own. Absolutely not rocket-shaped. Making sure there are wider options is one thing, but even then it needs to be shaped like a natural foot (think baby feet, Egyptian statues, and Vibrams). I feel this is key to some of your other points in the list and ensuring you don't have excessive shoe at the end past your toes or contributing towards deformation.

Nike is goofy for discontinuing the mens Rifts. They have some heel, but I can "pose" in 'em just fine. There's definitely room for improvement on them, but I think the tabi shape has a lot of use to it. To be fair, it's not much of a tabi shape and is borderline cosmetic. But it was an improvement... especially for 1995 originally. I think a lower drop Free crossed with the Rift would produce a remarkable shoe. And neoprene all the way. Breaths and warm when it needs to be, while stretching to conform to the foot.

Asics is also goofy for only doing a limited run of the newer version of the Marathon Tabi. Uma gets a pair for Kill Bill and the rest of us are left hanging? Limited releases. I guess some companies do this just to create a mystique or allure with their brand. Me, I give 'em the finger! Yeah, unless in the next year Asics sees a sudden market share drop, don't expect yourself to see any around to buy. I think if you know someone at Asics or can get to specialty brick & mortar stores in Germany or Japan in person, you might find an odd pair or two.

Podiatrists, and even some kinesiologists for that matter, are witch doctors... except for some of the better foot surgeons and peer-reviewed ones, respectively. And all chiropractors. Heh heh.

It’s a myth that low arches is bad. Pucky, plain and simple. The U.S. Army finally disproved their own decades-old policy: people with flat feet or even moderate, compressible arches had the lowest injuries, not people with high arches. Don't worry about it. Trash the extreme arch support and specialty orthodics. Only cushioning you need is for mild force distribution to avoid specific pressure points and vibration. And apparently, some people don't even need that.

Gordo & Andrew: Do you have long middle toes?

As far as sole thickness… I think 2mm of high-quality, fairly soft, flexible rubber that will last (Vibram knows their rubber), with some 1mm tread extensions that bring the outsole to 3mm in spots, plus 3mm of thermoplastic blue gel cushion, plus the glue between layers and cloth insole covering of another 1mm total, would give you a primary thickness of 6mm for a rounded, near-form-fitting sole, with 7mm thick at the tread points. Maybe that’s unrealistically thin to include a midsole?

But something with that approach would be optimal to me. It’d give me enough ground feedback, while reducing vibration conduction and also spreading force impacts from small pressure points. Unlike the Bikilla, I think this thin cushioning should extend throughout the entire midsole to reduce those vibrations to ligaments, tendons, and toe bones. That Vibram is also 7mm at its thickest points, but is zero drop and only 7mm in the heel and ball, correct? It also uses harder cushion material than I have in mind. Love the gels.

Gordo does have a great point about harder materials “smoothing out” sharp stuff. I got a pair of Sunmark insoles at BiMart, and they have a relatively stiff composition of thermoplastic. It does exactly that. It creates a virtual ground your foot is constantly in contact, while the thermoplastic, and then Vibrams I’ve fit them to are below it. If the midsole were too soft and pliable, the individual rocks can be felt. If it’s too hard, you don’t get sufficient vibration damping and isolation. Same as a car.

Perhaps this is a potential for brackets or segments for the various shoe models in a given line. Not so much based on sole thickness, like on the Nike Free line, but midsole material, density, and squishiness… assuming they’re all about the same thickness to begin with. The fact there is not one type of preference does fit right in with the profit incentive of companies to have a diversified line, in this case not for different price points, but to fill the various niches of desired feel.

"Gordo & Andrew: Do you have long middle toes?"

Greek foot, Morton's toe? Mild case, yes. I also have a medium-small frame.

My comment on your padding/sole scheme: I think it's overly complicated. I'd love to see about 5mm of fairly high durometer rubber with zero drop and an insole that could be customized for drop and cushion. That's all. Note that this is coming from someone who finds the VFF Sprint to be annoyingly squishy underfoot.

If you haven't seen it, here's what an experienced BF runner and ultra guy thinks.

http://barefootrunninguniversity.com/2010/11/17/new-balance-minimus-trail-review/

You asked if the drop was significant. There's your answer.

Gordo

@Gordo, @ Reticuli - I don't think the legs and foot move correctly if you have a monolithic, stiff surface on the bottom of your foot. That's the same as running in shoes. If the bottom is "mushy", each little bone and muscle is put to work how it is supposed to. Obviously we can do whatever we want, but it's clear throughout this process that the choices we make are often times to seek comfort and what feels best, when in the end that's not actually what's best for us.

@Gordo, My second toes are slightly shorter than my big toes. But I'm not sure it matters. I've read one doctor that estimated that only 3% of us suffer from substantially enough malformation that would preclude us from running barefoot. This is going to come of as harsh, but I've helped quite a few people start running barefoot, and they all had excuses why they couldn't. But that all, in the end good. Their "Running Ego" didn't want to start from scratch and learn fully the proper form. Once they let go, and viewed it as a journey of learning about the instrument that they were given, they came not only to run better, but experience much more joy in running. Just my $.02.

Not stiff. Sturdy. Think climbing-shoe rubber. Think 10 oz vegetable tanned leather. They are pretty flexible but dense enough to smooth out sharp rocks. I agree, stiff soles wouldn't be my choice.

Did anyone else notice that there will be 15mm of cushion under the heels of the Trail? 11mm under the forefoot? That's just nuts. Why don't they just admit what they are and rename them the Transitionus? Maybe even the Maximus. Minimal they ain't, even if you use a belt sander to zero them.

It's interesting that the big running shoe companies are having such a huge problem with this whole concept, while the little guys with no baggage are really getting after it. I guess it's to be expected.

Gordo

It would have been beneficial for NB to design the shoe with the insert as the (over) cushioning and wedge, that way those of us that want about 2mm of rubber and that's all would be happy and those that want to run in high cushioned heels could continue to think they're happy ;)

Gordo, the VFF Sprint has no midsole cushioning but you a few of cloth & rubber too squishy? And there's no one stopping you from putting insoles in them, at the opposite extreme. I have various thickness ones cut and fitted for 3 of my 4 pairs of VFFs. I have them out of the Classics right now that I'm just wearing around the house, but I have some fitted for those, too. I have Dr. Scholls, Sunmark, Ironman, and a few pair of $1 Walmart pillow cheaps all fitted for toe shoes when I want them. Different drops, squish, etc. Ditto for the water socks. Just make sure you separate them after they get wet for cleaning and drying.

Curious that the Minimus soles are not paticularly flexible in that review. That's a bit disturbing considering how promisingly asymmetrical and footshaped it is from the top. They've gotten halfway to the goal, it looks like. Almost seems perhaps a Nike Free Zero, 1.0, or 2.0 would be better, assuming they ever come out with them. They have the “flexible sole but still some cushion” thing down... just too much sole still. Nike finally got the foot shape better on the 3.0 v2 and the Run +. Please oh please: Nike Free Zero Rift Super Ultra something something. Mwah hah hah.

@Reticuli, " VFF Sprint has no midsole cushioning but you a few of cloth & rubber too squishy?"

Correct. I lose perception and I don't gain much protection. Lose/lose.

"And there's no one stopping you from putting insoles in them, at the opposite extreme."

True. A vegetable tanned leather foot bed would be perfect. It would even help with the smell. But ... I hate wearing them. My middle toes are mushroom-shaped from decades of wearing cowboy boots and climbing shoes. The toe pockets rub me wrong, if you get my drift. After about three miles, I'm ready to toss them into the nearest dumpster. Because they squeeze the ends of my toes, they aren't even good for cold weather. I need a real shoe.

"They've gotten halfway to the goal, it looks like."

Exactly. A nice start. I just read that the MT110 prototypes are 11mm/7mm and built on the Minimus last. Getting there, slowly.

Gordo

Does anyone know if NB will be selling these shoes in US size 16?

Looking at the photos some more, I think the Minimus little toe area is too back towards the arch/heel region and should instead be further forward. Either you'd have to have REALLY long big toes (even longer than mine) or really tiny, maybe amputated, little toes to justify that shape... or deformed, scrunched little toes. Look at the shape of the Vibrams. That's the shape of a foot. Outline your foot. That's the shape of a foot. There's no reason to have so much excess shoe in front of the middle toes.

If I'm a 26cm foot, I should be able to get a 27cm insole shoe (US 9) and have it fit my foot. I realize that the glove like nature of VFFs necessitates a 26 or 26.5cm slipper, but you shouldn't need to go 1.5 to 2 full sizes above your actual foot to get a fit these shoes. When was the last time you all checked your foot width professionally? Mine measured normal, yet I have to get very wide widths or over size completely. I will no longer buy size 10 or extra wide shoes when conventional shoes should be size 9 on me. If it's necessary, it's because the shoe's designed wrong and I will pass.

One big company got it. Although I suspect that maybe they aren't considered to be a real running shoe company.

http://www.dailymile.com/people/thinnman/entries/4187938

Gordo

Yeah. Otherwise, the sole shape's not that different. The Minimus might even be slightly better in toe shape, but it's hard to tell from the pics New Balance and Merrell have released so far. Comparing top down to the sole view underneith can be misleading. They might be identical foot shape except for the drop. I still think they could improve it beyond just the drop...

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5389/ergonomicrunningshoesol.jpg

[URL=http://img840.imageshack.us/i/ergonomicrunningshoesol.jpg/][IMG]http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5389/ergonomicrunningshoesol.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Oh, and according to Wikipedia, my memory is faulty. It was Cliff, not Woody who said that thing about shoes in the final episode of Cheers. That does sound like something he'd say...

I, for one, applaud NB for releasing the Minimus line. I'm fairly new (or renewed) to "more minimal" shoes (having trained and raced in Nike cross country flats for several years, on road and off). I'm in Kinvara's now, a good half size larger than any I've ever worn, and with the lower eyelets completely loose. I've found that forefoot width (and shape) is my particular axe to grind, and I'm looking at the Altra line and these to be the potential panacea for my issues. Thank you NB!!

Does heel and arch support go together? I think so. You have one, you gotta have some of the other. I've been doing some tests with insoles of various types in some zero drop tabi shoes and this seems to be the case. I'm preferring neither of each, but some of one requires enough of the other to balance it out. Now, this doesn't mean a zero drop shoe can't conform to the shape of the mid-foot... including the arch. But that's different than providing support. You don't want it loose in that area, but it doesn't need to be stiff and upwardly supportive just to do that.

Am so so so much looking forward to getting my hands (feet) on a pair. Do have some questions: Will there be a Minimus Trail for women? In the gorgeous black/orange colour scheme? (don't ever go girlie pink please)
Will they be available from March 2011 where I live, The Netherlands?
Would love to hear from anyone at NB.

@RunKellyRun - I would be very very interested in testing the Minimus Wide's during the testing phase. I have an aggressive running schedule over the next few months - including several 50Ks, 50Ms, and Vermont 100.

Please contact me if I can help!

Add me to the list of 4E seekers. Love to test them for you.

I would also love to see these in a 12 2E or a 12 4E width. I have a pair of 1063 2E fit fine. A pair of Asics 12 4E fit fine. So it rerally depends on the make of the shoe for me. I bought a pair of VFF's and cannot wear them feet too wide.

Would like to get closer to the ground with the shoes. Living in the NE I cannot go barefoot in this weather. NO problem with a minimal shoe just cannot find a wide width? Anyone know of a 2E or 4E minimal shoe? Kohls has a Nike Dart 8 that looks pretty flat by the picture but really hate to buy a running shoe in a dept store.

Shawn

I almost gave up on getting a 4E in the minimalist running shoes.

I rushed to get the MT101 when it came out, but ended up with sore pinky fingers after a single run. Tried them for a casual use, but it was painful. I finally got back to my torn Asics 4E shoes for casual use and VFF for running which get painful after 4-5 miles in the hills.

If NB Minimus, especially the Trail Running one comes with a 4E size, I will buy it the moment it's released. And yes! would love to test it for you guys.

Thanks,
VJ

@runphy I just bought a pair of Brooks launch D width and they fit reasonably well. I normally wear A 4E. There not quite minimalist shoe but it's a step closer for me

Shawn

I want to add a voice to the chorus for a 4E width.

More interestingly, have people experimented with moccasins? I made my own as a kid and used them all day, every day in summer, for walking, running and sneaking up on friends. Perhaps a thicker hide with hair for those needing footwear in the freezing climates?
There's a lot of online-DIY-kits out there to make a custom pair.

@hammster

I've made about 10 pairs of moccasins for different applications. They work really well, but they are slippery in the winter on snow and ice. They work poorly when things get wet. Those two conditions are why I want a real shoe.

Gordo

I have been running over the past 3 years with new balance's 805's, which were the closest thing to minimal shoes available back in 2007. They were made with super light but durable rubber one piece under soles (think car tire), and a very small heel to toe drop. I have put 1,200 miles into them, 300 off road, and just now they are finally wearing out. The lace bands are ripping, but the under sole is almost perfectly preserved. The 805's were the perfect balance of minimal, while still providing tough support for rocky trail running. I wear 2E size 14.5s, so a wide front foot area is a must for me. If the size 14s are to small for me this march then I will be without options, for the 805's were sold out over a year ago. So yes, please make sure you get into manufacturing other widths and bigger sizes for fall 2011.

If I can't find a pair of running shoes with little to no drop, no middle foot stride alterators, and the minimus size 14's aren't big or wide enough, then I will cut the back soles off another shoe to get what I need. This would drastically reduce the amount of time the shoe would last me, unfortunately.

For a high school cross country runner, what shoes would you suggest? the minimus shoes? I assume they are lighter than the average sneaker and from that one would assume they are faster too, would that assumption be correct? I am looking for an alternative to having both a pair of sneakers and spikes. I know that spikes are faster then regular sneakers cause they are light and help with traction.

The Minimus might be great....but they should have never discontinued the 790's..A premature departure of the best shoe I've come across in awhile.

minimalist running isn't just for the short; tall people need shoes like these too! please manufacture size 15s!

I hope these shoes will come in men's narrow widths (AA, B) as New Balance is the only company that makes narrow running shoes that fit me. By the way, I just bought the NB size 12 B hiking boots that fit perfectly!

Please correct the bubble chart of the weight. It is just plain wrong. I plotted the data using processing and the size of the 7oz bubble is diminished.

AWESOME Shoe. Feels great on the rocks and dirt, mud and snow at 7400ft in afghanistan. Can't wait til March to buy another pair or 2. GREAT JOB!!!!

i just got a pair the other day and so far have ran two 5 mile runs. one on the road and one on a trail. the shoe is great. it fits snugly and feels light but still protects your feet. i suggest anyone who wants a minimalist shoe to definitely try these out.

If you are looking for more width testers, I would love to test a Women's 10 EE in the Minimus. And the black/yellow style is GORGEOUS, by the way.

I'll throw my name down for the hopes to see a selection of wide widths available. Trying to find minimalist shoes for those of us with wide feet is a pita!

I agree with Jacob. I was really eager to try the minimus but it was way too tight. I need at least a EE option. I'm stuck in vibrams. I run in the 101 too but it is also a bit too tight but bearable. I'd love to see a wider option in that one too.

Why are the Wellness shoes not recommended for running? They are the most comfortable of the three for me. I'm used to wearing Vibram Fivefingers, so I'm used to near-barefoot running. Thanks!

New balance really screwed up when they made this shoe. The idea, pursue minimalist's and barefoot runners, is right. The course of action, provide a minimal shoe that doesn't have 0 drop, is downright ********. As a barefoot runner, VFF's and Run-A-Moc's being my weapons of choice currently, I can't help but express my disdain for these shoes before even trying them.

The goal of mega companies such as New Balance and Nike have been to provide a compromise so that they interest a great swath of people. What they have done however, is miss a fast growing niche market and turned off a bunch of people who like the typical shoes they make.

The R & D, product development, marketers and field reps for these guys need to step their game up, OR, I will take their job!

To the one 6'3"/220 lbs dude- sounds like my kinda guy! Hope it worked out for you big boy.

To Katherine Petrecca: I knew you guys wouldn't make these in 'B' width for men.

Thanks-

I got the minimus trail 1 week ago and was concerned about the snug band across the top of the forefoot that didn't feel too minimal-like feel, but, after wearing a few days they seemed to "break in" very quickly and now feel great. This shoe feels unrestricted and fast when you pick up the pace and go a little harder. The slight heel rise is hardly noticed making this a great transition shoe for going from trail to road to hill or whatever. These are definitely an evolutionary upgrade from the 790's which were my favorite. I would consider this shoe a moderate to drastic move from typical light training shoes, with their various levels of support, toward natural almost shoeless running.

@cody85

WoW- I thought my men's 10B was hard to find. Size 16 huh? 6'6? 6'8? I like big dudes. (LOL)

OK, back on topic-

WHY DID YOU TEASE US ALL ALONG INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING FROM THE BEGINNING-

New Balance will not spend the money to make these shoes in 'B' width (or 3-4E for my fat foot friends).

This 'blog' has been going on for months and at NO TIME did anybody from New Balance just come out and say- 'we aren't making these (or as many as we used to- period) in 'B' width. And our factories in China can only make standard 'D' width. Plus, the profit is better for 'D' width", etc....

Hey NB Staff...

NEEDED: NB Minimus Trail in size 11-2E. I was able to try a pair of regular-width Minimus', but after 0.25 mile, I couldn't do it. However, they are AMAZING! I need the 2E's. Please save my information and, if you release them or need some testing prior to official release, I will buy a pair immediately. I need a new trail shoe for a few trail marathons coming up in the fall. Thank you very much.

Anton B.

That's a shoe?

There has been so much speculation about different widths. A retailer assured me that the NB minimus would release different widths in the shoe and it usually takes several months after original release to roll out the different widths.

Would any staff care to confirm that information and if so what widths are likely to be released and in what models?

@Bernie1985:

Uh, the shoes are out and there are no other widths than those that are available. Period.

Yes, if New Balance comes out with some LATER ON--- then that 'retailer' would be correct, HOWEVER, they are NOT coming anytime soon- I assure you.

Unfortunately, I wear a 10B and 'B' widths are fewer and fewer these days- unless they are for the over 60-set. ("walking shoes with velcro"- for example)

Well the staff member earlier in the thread even mentioned they would be releasing widths in the fall of 2011, which is what the retailer said as well. So you never know, if widths are on their way we can expect at least a 2E option I think... I hope

Hi All - jumping in here to respond to a few things. Thanks to everyone for your passion and conversation!

@Bernie1985, thank you - yes, you're correct. The NB Minimus collection will come in widths in JULY 2011. This will include a 2E option for men and a D option for women.

@SdotM - I'm going to check for you and see if "B" width is coming in the men's sizes. If not, I will put in the strong request for them (as well as the general request to keep making shoes in B's!) and see if we can make it happen! I hear you that runners like you need options too!

@Anton - these shoes will be available in an 11 (2E) in July

@BradGNAR - Thank you for your passion! We agree, there's a need in the market for a 0mm drop shoe. We intended for this first round of NB Minimus to be a great transition shoe for those who are looking to get into the minimalist running segment, as well as those who have gone to 0mm, and felt like they needed a bit more support, protection, or extremely minimal cushioning. That said, we are in development on something that will answer your needs. We really hope you'll be one of the runners who can give us feedback on it when it comes out!

My size 14, 2E 904 TRs can't make it any longer! Just last week, the blown out side of the right shoe kicked the bucket, letting my poor little pinky toe fend for itself against the nasty Colorado rocks.

I've been holding out for widths in the 101MT line and punishing my feet with VFFs in the meantime. Please release your great minimalist TR shoes in widths. Personally, I'd buy a Minimus and the MT101s/110s in a 14 or 15 2e, but am really hoping the MTs get widths.

Can I make it to July in the VFFs...? Poor calves, poor metatarsals. Don't make me duct tape the 904s! New Balance, you are the best...

@RunKellyRun: Yes, PLEASE, and thank you! If you need a 'tester'- I know I wear a 10B in all other NB shoes- 9.5 B in Ferragamo and most other dress shoes, so let me know and I'll send you my address.

Thanks, again! Yes, yes, yes- more 'B' and 'extra-wide' for my big, burly Cro Magnon friends on here. ;-)

Hi there,

Just before purchasing I ran into this review: http://www.runblogger.com/2010/12/when-shoes-attack-me-itb-pain-caused-by.html denoting manufacturing flaw in the minimus trail. The guy basically identified increased toebox pressure on the right shoe due to manufacturing assymetry.

This was also confirmed in many talkbacks.

Did NB corrected it ?
Does it presented in the gray/yellow model as well ?

Any comment is appreciated...
Thanks

@eyalasko if it helps I only saw it on the orange shoes when I was trying them on at the store it's why I originally went with the grey.

Aside from that though I excited at first but the shoe disappointed me. The 4mm heal drop ruined the barefoot experience for me. You guys need to come out with one that' has no heal drop. I negated the whole purpose of being barefoot. Don't be silly like the Nike Free's.

I tried New Balance first but turned to the Trail Glove.

Thank you though for the wonderful customer service, the local New Balance store here was nice enough to let me return them for a full refund. Let alone very understanding.

They told me there would be a zero heel drop version coming soon if so I would be stoked. Also if that is the case make sure you shape the heel naturally do not spread it out along the bottom.

I have the black/yellow minimus trail and see no problem with the toe box area. I also have the Trail Glove, but, I do prefer the fit, feel, and performance of the Minimus. While the Merrell does have 0mm heel and a more true sole shape, the Minimus fits and performs better for me. Keep in mind that these are both shoes and have vibram under your foot. You do not run barefoot unless it's skin contacting the ground. You will run different with a sole under your foot than without. And please don't compare with anything Nike. I haven't had a knee, foot, leg, hip or any related problem since tossing my Free's.

@dmikew

Funny, the extra 4mm in the Minimus brought back my knee pain which is why they felt to much like Free's to me and why I ignored Free's altogether.

I found that it also made my foot more unstable and sacrificed my form by forcing my heal to impact the ground earlier.

"Barefoot" is meant to be in quotations. So I should probably rather say Minimalist Experience, but the lift so far I find takes away the most from the mechanics of the foot.

The toe box are was fine, the part of the shoe done right, I was just commenting on the manufacturing defect in some orange and black Trails. I was surprised to see they made it to the store with that defect.

As a a walking shoe the Trail Glove has it beat for me... the Minimus left me sore and with shin splints so I'm waiting a few more runs before I try the glove instead of using my tried and true FiveFingers.

I just hope they make a zero heel drop Minimus.

Has anyone worn these for race walking? I average a marathon or ultra marathon a month with many shorter races in between. I tried on the minimus road version at the Boston Marathon expo yesterday and liked the way it felt though I decided not to buy it without reading reviews.

I haven't been able to find a minimal shoe I really like for race walking. Regular running shoes have too big a drop, which can cause tendinitis in various spots on the ankle and foot. Also they make shin splints worse. The Mizuno Musha is used by many race walkers but only comes in a men's version. Another popular race walking shoe is the Adidas Adizero Adios but it and the other racing flats, including the Musha, have pointier toes than I like. The minimus appears to be nice and rounded.

This is my first minimalist "barefoot" shoe. They have changed my running stance and the first month made my lower legs sore from buliding new muscles. Now that i am getting used to the shoes I feel a new control over the surface that I have never felt before. great for off road and on.

Searching around the net, I found one racewalker that commented about the slightly rounded heel on the minimus road. The person doesn't think it will be good for racewalkers because we DO heel strike. The person hadn't tested them though so still wondering about the minimus road shoe for racewalkers. Anybody heard anything or tried them?

I too wear a size 16 and would love for a company to make minimalist shoes in my size. New Balance, please accommodate us large footed freaks! :D

Anybody know how they feel jumping rope?

Type your comments here.Hi, New Balance and company,

Good effort with the Minimus. Seriously. Alas, I feel like there is a good deal of improvement needed. Specifically, the overall width of the shoe. Especially, the toe box. I am a huge fan of Vibram Five Fingers and Terra Plana, but loved the sleeker look of the Minimus.

However, when I tried a pair on last night at City Sports here in NYC, I was extremely disappointed with the toe crowding in the shoe. That specifically is one of the attributes I hate most about traditional shoes. It's uncomfortable and anatomically erroneous to not have our toes splay out and be functional whilst walking.

Like I said, I love the way the Miniums looks (so stylish and sleek) and I even loved how light it felt on my feet. However, until the aforementioned improvements in foot and toe width are made, I'll have to stick solely with all the minimal shoe options.

I'm looking forward to trying these shoes. I want to echo what many of the other folks on this post have mentioned - wide (2E-4E) widths are a must!

Oh yeah, and less "striking" colors might also be nice!

Got the minimus lifestyle yesterday. Walking around in them feels great. I'm jumping rope in them tomorrow. I will let you know how they feel.

I'd love to see these in 4E as well. I'll test the heck out of them if given the chance. Thanks!

Jumping rope feels great. I'm getting the minimus cross trainers next.

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY...RELEASE SOME WIDER WIDTHS ALREADY!!!

yeah, what he said....what is the deal with the lack of widths for shoes with less of a heel drop?

Does the 1190 have a full heel drop? serve the wide folks!

Oh, I was so looking forward to these shoes. I have had two friends rave about them lately. I was looking...only to find that they only come in narrow sizes. what a bummer. I love new balance because their 2E shoes fit me perfectly! Why the initial release only includes narrow sizes is beyond me. Oh well...I will keep looing!

Oh, I was so looking forward to these shoes. I have had two friends rave about them lately. I was looking...only to find that they only come in narrow sizes. what a bummer. I love new balance because their 2E shoes fit me perfectly! Why the initial release only includes narrow sizes is beyond me. Oh well...I will keep looking!

I've had a quick trawl through and looked around a few sites, any news on a UK release date for the minimus road?

Like some of the other commenters, I love the idea of these (I love my Vibrams), and really need them in wide widths. I've worn New Balance for years and have to get the 4E width. Wide width shoes are what New Balance is known for. I find it very odd that they would come out with this great new product and have it available only in D width. That's something I would only expect from Nike!
Let me know when these are available in 4E and I'll buy some.

I love the fit an feel of my new Minimus Trial shoes. They are so form fitting and comfortable that they make my other running shoes feel like they were designed by someone who had to rely on a voicemail description of the shape of my foot. I was shocked to find that the snug fit through the mid-foot provided all of the arch support that I needed, and that my feet feel better than ever despite feeling every rock and root I land on during my runs. They're just as comfortable for my 20 minute walk to work in the city. Great job on these shoes!

Fairly new to running. After a bout of plantar fasciitis last year, I actually bothered to research running form this time around. Getting off the heel just made too much sense, so I got a pair of Roads and really like them.

In the long run, the zero drop version will be the winners of this breed, but the 4 mm is really nice to have right now. I'm still strengthening the calves, ankles, and feet for better running and will occasionally crash the heel. That 4 mm is enough to keep me from hurting myself on a single landing, but still thin enough to get the instant "don't do that!" feedback that I need. That's really the beauty of these shoes - thin enough to tell you what to do correctly, but just thick enough to forgive the occasional mistake while learning.

Eventually I'll learn to run barefoot. Whether I run barefoot or shod, I at least want to know it's by choice rather than necessity. But first I just need to run and improve my fitness, and these shoes work very well. I'm quite pleased.

As for the width issue: I'm fortunate that normal width is ok (though I'd be better off one width up), but I think I understand the initial offering. Releasing a st'd width shoe early helps minimize the initial capital investment in the new line, and I can't blame anybody for playing it safe right now. I feel for wide feet types, but at least we'll all have the shoes we want by this time next year. (I'm speculating, but this logic really makes sense to me.)

Less arch support would be great, though. Even for this newbie.

Dhoop, New Balance was once known as a company that catered to widths. They had broad support from people like me who require more than the standard width. They could have released these shoes in widths without losing their shirts.

I am no longer wedded to New Balance. Whoever comes out with the wide minimalist shoe first will have my money. I know many many others who feel the same.

I purchased my first pair of Minumus shoes about a week and a half ago and I LOVE them. I did my research and was prepared for an adjustment period, but after a week in them i felt comfortable enough to wear them on an adventure race. The terrain was quite tough. I came through the even with not so much as a red toe. I was amazed until i looked at the bottom of the shoes. The sole had sort of expanded at the ball of the shoe (imagine if something absorbant had gotten wet and was expanding through little holes). They looked like they had been used and abused for months. My NB store replaced them no questions asked, but I a, concerned I wore my new pair today for some trail running (soft dirt, leaves etc. No more than 3 miles) and my new soles are showing signs of 'expansion' again. Has anyone had a similar experience?

@ runKellyrun THANK YOU, I've been running in a men's 8 Minimus road and like it so much but it's too narrow and starting to bother me. I had to return the Minimus trail because the rubber around the toe box was far too tight & had hardly any give. Will you be letting people know when the wide widths are available for purchase? I just saw a sales associate with an Minimus shoe in an orange color he said "comes out in July" so perhaps some people are previewing pairs already? If so, if there is any chance I can preview a NB Minimus in a men's 8 or a women's 9.5 (WIDE) please let me know. I run for a New Balance sponsored track team in NYC and will be wearing them all summer and for marathon training. Thank you!

I feel your pain! Try barefoot running while you wait for the right fit in a light minimalist shoe, it'll improve your running dramatically.
@dhoopdtractor
@runnerchicago
@Jlarsp13
@kp101
@Rahsaan

Still wondering whether anyone has racewalked in the minimus road shoe. I've done two marathons in mine now and they still feel great. I was worried that I hadn't trained in them enough before wearing them in a marathon for the first time, especially since my previous shoes had a large heel drop. But no problems. I'll wear them again in 2 weeks at my next marathon. Am wondering now how long I should expect this sole to last. I could 300-400 miles in my previous shoes but I expect these will break down/wear out much sooner.

@broussca I am not familiar with the term "racewalk", you are walking the distance I assume? I'm under the impression this shoe was designed for runners who don't want to heel strike, so the heel is not cushioned and it doesn't have a chunky heel/ large drop. I'm not sure why you'd wear it to walk unless you walk like a ballerina... ? That said, if you've already walked 26.2 miles x 2 in them and don't have any pain and the bottoms are not coming off I'd say it's safe to keep walking in your Minimus shoes.

@broussca pardon me, just looked up racewalking, very interesting! if you are striking first with the heel (as it seems you'd have to to move quickly while adhering to the rules of competition) then I don't know that this is the right shoe for you, but that's just my understanding/opinion. If you can race walk and midfoot/forefoot strike rather than heel strike this is the shoe you want. Good luck!

Would the Minimus Road be recomended for speed waling (not racewalking). I walk a 14:00 pace and complete Half-Maratons at that pace.

Looking for suggestions. What's the best way to clean and "freshen up" the Minimus Trail shoe? The sport detergents don't really work very well.

You guys seen the new ZemGear designs? I'd heard they were working on them, but looks like they'll be out in July.

http://www.zemgear.com/Products.html

I'm telling ya, NB, split toe is the key... like Neo and Butters.

C'mon, no widths? New Balance really screwed up.

ALL

I just ordered road Minimus in 8.5 2E. I am surprised no one from NB notified us hard core widers, but THANK YOU NB for making these available ahead of the July schedule!

2E is the only width available and only in one color, but I will take that. there is also a good sale going on the website now for anyone interested

Hi Everyone!

Wanted to provide a quick ****** here that the NB Minimus collection will be available in 2E for Men and D for Women starting July 1, 2011.

Kelly

Thanks Kelly! That is great news!

But, as expected, no 'B' (NARROW) for MEN. Can't those poor Chinese/Taiwanese kids make more variety of shoes for NB? I'm sure they could use the extra $1.00.

Just come out and say it already. It's not a big industry secret or anything. Not going to be in B for Men. Period.

I love the Minimus Trail shoe. Best thing I've ever enjoyed putting my foot into. I use them for 75% of my running and it keeps getting better. Sure, go ahead and make different widths, sizes and variations, but, please don't change the base Trail version. My only suggestion would be to make the foot bed/liner with a different material that doesn't retain moisture (including sweat!) as much as they do. Very difficult to dry out and perspiration is retained a bit too long, if you get my "drift". Thanks.

I've had my NB Minimus Life for just over a month, and I love them. Or rather, loved them. About 2 weeks ago the "tag" on the tongue part of the shoe really started to irritate the top part of my foot. So much so that it left a red mark on the top of my foot for over a week. This is making it very uncomfortable to wear the shoes anymore, which makes me super sad. Has anyone else had issues with the "tag"?

Woohoo! Thanks for the great news Kelly. I'll be buying the wide shoes on July 1st.

Anyone feel free to answer:

How's the Minimus supposed to fit? I recently received the Trail in a 10 and 10.5, but even with the 10.5 there was no space at all in front of my toes. Because it's meant to simulate barefoot running, should it have no space—and therefore fit like a glove? Or should I still aim for a thumb's width of space after longest toe?

Thanks to anyone that can offer some insight!

Hey RP,

I'm not a pro by any means, but I've had a pair of the Roads for a full month now and this is my general take on them:

I went a half size up from my normal size because the normal size felt tight in the store, particularly at the toe box. I really would do better in the wide width, but the standard works well enough (I'm a tweener). I have a thumb width between my toes and the end of the shoe, and I'm really glad for it. When I run, I can flex my toes around and make them work as a part of my running rhythm. I wouldn't go tight on the toes for anything.

I think that's how it bests simulates barefootedness - with more room for the toes. That gives you more range of motion and flex in the whole foot and doesn't bind the toes into a tight package. In 'glove-fit' shoes like the Vibrams, the toes still have the option to work as they were designed to work; in these shoes, you have to give them space.

A bit wordy, but that's my take.

Unrelated: does NB have any recommendations on cleaning this line of shoes? I'm going with the standard scrub brush and elbow grease approach, but I'd like to know if there is anything I should watch out for when cleaning them.

Also unrelated: my Roads lose traction very quickly when mud gets involved. Recent rains in my area have cause rivers to dump mud on running trails, and I have to pick my way through the grass if I want to stay on my feet. (Granted, river mud/silt is slick no matter the shoe, but it's very pronounced in the Roads.) This isn't a complaint by any means, maybe it'll factor into a decision for somebody who's wavering between the Roads and the Trails.

Otherwise - one month in and loving the shoes! PLEASE make the zero drops available by Christmas. It'll make shopping far easier on my family if you do. ;-)

For you racewalkers thinking about the MInimus, I just finished my third marathon in my Minimus Road shoes and I still love them. I wear a size 9, B width in a running shoe (size 8, B width in a street shoe), however I bought these in a 9.5 because my local store didn't have a 9. I worried they would be too long but they are fine (and very good for races with a lot of downhill).

I'm wondering now how many miles the Minimus Road shoes are likely to last. I'm going to buy a second pair so I have a basis for comparison in heel/sole wear. I average a marathon/ultramarathon a month and want to be sure I don't cause pain by going too far in a pair. It annoys me that the NB folks can't be bothered to monitor and answer questions on this site. After all they started the conversation and many posters have asked questions that only they can answer!

To SFR: Speedwalking isn't so different from racewalking. You still strike with your heel and follow through. You still have to lift your toes high, which means flatter shoes are likely better than regular running shoes. While I average faster paces for shorter races, I average 14 minutes/mile in ultra-marathons and I use racewalking technique.

To Acoppa: Racewalkers don't land midfoot like runners are supposed to. We land on our heels, however the flatter the shoe the better, they say, because with a large heel drop, lifting toes becomes more difficult and shin splints can be far worse than usual. I wore Saucony Ride (big heel drop) for several years and my shin splints were unbearable. After switching to the Minimus, they are better (not gone, but better). I worried about the slightly curved heel of the Minimus, but it doesn't seem to cause a problem. I like it better than the Mizuno Wave Musha 2, which doesn't have a wide rounded toe box like the Minimus. I plan to purchase a pair of Saucony Kinvera, another minimal shoe, to compare to the Minimus. I'm on a search for the very best racewalking shoe for me!

@KatieE - We haven't heard of this issue before, but if you'd like to contact our Customer Help team, we would like to hear more about the issue and see if there's something we can do to help. They can be reached at: customerhelp@newbalance.com or (800)253-7463.

@RP - the NB Minimus collection is built around a natural last - meaning the form the shoe is molded on has a slimmer fit, wider toe box (to allow for toe-splay), and a lower heel-to-toe drop. However, this shouldn't affect the length of the shoe. We would still recommend wearing a size that allows for room between the tip of your big toe and the end of the shoe.

@dmikew @dhoop - We recommend cleaning the shoes with an old toothbrush and laundry detergent that's been diluted in water. We do not recommend putting them in the washer or dryer as that can affect the fit of the shoes.

@broussca - thank you for your expertise in the racewalking area! As for the amount of miles on the shoe, this can vary by user, but we recommend putting no more than 300-500 miles if you're running in the shoes.

I picked up the trail minimus in 2E. it was still too tight in the forefoot for me. I completely removed the band across the forefoot and it feels awesome now. of course this totally voids the warranty but for those of you with very wide feet or who are bothered by the band for some other reason I hope this helps.

Any updates on a UK release date for the NB Minimus Road? Desperate to purchase a pair!

Hi there,

Just wondering how I would go about purchasing the NB Minimus in Ireland. If they were in the UK that would be no problem but I am not about buying from US.

Thanks,

Padraig

@runkellyrun - Will the minimus life be getting the 2E wide option? I've called around and so far no one is carrying them. Also whats the difference with the MT20 line as to the MT10?

@runkellyrun - First, thanks for keeping us all updated! I've been watching the progress of this line for a while, and am excited to see it evolve.

Now, my question: I'm starting to see 2E width MT10s show up in stores, but only in the new color schemes. I've been excitedly waiting to buy a pair of 2Es in the original orange and black... can you tell us if this width will be available in ALL colors, or just the newer designs?

Thanks!

@ion where have you seen the wide minimus' showing up? I've been waiting forever...what cities have them? any online?

@vision.rafael – We will have widths in the NB Minimus life in January, 2012!

To answer your questions about the MT10’s and MT20’s, the MT20’s feature a slightly more structured upper on the same sole unit, creating a similar near-barefoot experience on the trail.

@ion – Unfortunately, the orange and black scheme will not be offered in 2E. However, you can find 2E widths with the Red with Gray and the Gray with Orange right now on ShopNewBalance.com. Also, this fall you will start to see 2E in the Gray with Yellow as well.

I finally got to try the MT10 in a size 13 US D width, but did not run in them. I don't mean to come off harsh but I wasn't impressed. My list of gripes:

- the 4 mm heel differential is noticeable
- At times I wish NB and other shoe companies made a size 13.5. Virtually no running shoe companies make half sizes after size 13, meaning the next size up is a 14.
- no 2E widths available in Europe, come on NB! I'm somewhat curious to try a 2E, but will probably wait to see if the 0 dropped Minimus is an improvement, which will be a while in Europe.
- In a 13 D, my toes felt a bit constricted, either I should have sized up or try a 2E width. I felt the toe box could be more squared less pointy, more foot shaped meaning it could tapper somewhat less aroud the big toes and outer toes.
- too much toe spring in the MT10!

This coming from someone who's main shoe is a 47 VFF KSO, despite some of it's caveats it's a more foot shaped and wider, more comfortable and accommodating shoe that I have personally worn to date.

What a difference width sizing makes! I cannot run in a Minimus Trail MT10 size 10 D width but for the past two weeks, I've been running exclusively on trails with a size 10 2E. More than 50 miles and this is becoming one of my favorite trail shoes when I need more protection - add that to my Merrell Trail Glove, Sonic Glove, Inov-8 Bare Grip 200, and X-Talon 190 - my top 5 go to trail shoes depending on the terrain.

NB Mimimus Zero MUST launch with width sizing PLEASE! Same for NB 110!!!

NB please make the 2E width and the MT20 available in Europe.

Only D with is available here, meaning we're getting the short end of the stick.

I tried a size 13 D width MT10. If only the toe box was wider, less tapered and it had a 0 drop, it would of been a decent shoe.

Make widths available in Europe and the zero drop Minimus with a correct toe box!

@AndrewNYC, @Gordo

i have to agree with everything you wrote...because that has been my experience. i'm not interested in winning any arguments, but only in helping people find what works for them. in my case, i couldn't run consistently in shoes. then i tried vff, which was nice, but i was getting pain on the plantar side of my second metatarsal heads.

then i tried bf on rough surfaces, where there is no allowance for bad form, and my pain went away, and my feet didn't allow me to run more than they were ready for. not only is it fun, which is a blessing when exercise is fun, but i also learned how to walk in shoes better.

as to the trail shoe in particular, i read an article by krupicka on the necessity for a plate to prevent injury from rocks, and it makes sense. if you're racing on rocky trails, you probably need something exactly like this, and i plan to try them on.

I've been an avid runner for a while. In addition, I love buying new running shoes to try out the newest in minimalist running. Sadly I have fat wide feet (even in the heel as one reviewer noted people never complain about). With 4E wide fat flat feet shoe selections have been limited. I have tried wearing New Balance shoes on several ocassions for cross trainers and tennis shoes being the best fitting lasts for me in their product line. I have never had a pair of NB that fit me well, so my hopes for a 4E minimus are still on hold.

Currently running in an Asics Cumulus, Asics Gel 2010, Vibram Five Finger Bikla, and custom made Luna Sabdaks Huaracha style running sandals. But would really love a stylish NORMAL looking pair of minimalist kicks with these rad colors!

Katherine, after reading all the discussion and thoughts of so many here, I'd like to ask about the research and development of the Minimus line. I realize a great amount was put into it by many people. it appears to be of course well trained and educated adults. Many experienced and dedicated runners I'm sure. However, was any study done of kids 8 to 12 years old that have little to no running training? Kids that when running barefoot naturally just playing or whatever, tend to run like we all are trying to do to get back to doing what we think is natural. Study their strides, foot strike, gait, foot landings, and ttrying heir foot shapes. Make a shoe that is just protection on the sole (cushioning could be added in various degrees by the individual as wanted) that is ultra flexible and the uppers that can be wrapped to your foot shape to give you that unnoticed feeling. (in other words you don't feel them). Minimus Trail is a very good start. We are all getting retrained to learn to run naturally again; now let's try to run like we are 10 years old again and just go run without thinking about how to do it. And, of course, keeping in mind that not everyone comes from the same mold and shoe shapes and designs shouldn't either. Thanks for listening.

Mens' New Balance 11 4E fits me perfectly. I cannot use the M's. Please hurry with the wide shoes!

I have a very wide foot, i wear 11- 5E, but can make due with 4E, but 2E is no good for me. If new balance wants to leave us wide foot people out on their new products? remember Nike Air has a wide width shoe now.

One more voice in the chorus pleading for WIDE!

What a joke...releasing 2e but not 4e? The 2e's barely felt wider than the D's. Please release 4e already!!!

Jeez...how long do we need to wait until we see the 4e sizes? What happened to NB that they no longer cater to wide runners? Someone else should jump in and fill the void.

Another voice for the 4e's. Don't make us wait until next year. I'll find some other company to fill my wide needs and drop the deuce on NB.

Great article!

Question for any of the NB staff out there - I'm on my way to Disney World next week with the fam. Would a Minimus show be a good "theme park" shoe? Obviously, we'll be doing lots of walking and standing in line. In not a Minimus, can you recommend a all-day comfortable NB that might work?

Thanks!

Derek

@leonidoff - Great question! It really depends on how used to "minimal" shoes you are. If you have been walking or running in them for a while, and your feet are used to the lack of support, we would recommend the Life (walking) version of the shoes (http://bit.ly/l3oq2M).

If you have not yet tried minimal shoes, and this would be your first time, we would not recommend an extended day of walking & standing as your first experience with them. By nature of the design, they can be challenging to the many muscles & ligaments in your feet, so we recommend easing into them when either running or walking.

Hope this helps!

About a year ago you said there were no plans to make Minimus shoes for kids. It seems like there is a huge potential market of concerned parents out there, who would want their kids to grow up running more naturally. Plus, there doesn't seem to be any competition (yet) in the market segment.

One other unrelated question: How come Minimus shoes aren't made in the US?

Excellent post about Minimus for kids. Of all the groups to reach, young developing runners should be encouraged to run more naturally. There is very little offered for kids up to 12-14 years old. Just the bulky heavily stepped up models made for looks. Why do want them to develop running strides and problems that will have to be painfully corrected at a latter date? However, don't wait for the shoe makers to give a product they need; take your young ones out to parks, soccer fields, etc. and have them run barefoot now.
And, why can't Minimus, as well as all NB, be made in the U.S.A? I would pay more for them.

screw the kids, make some 4e's already

New Balance is just so disappointing these days. No 4e for the minimus line? Goes against their reputation for serving the segment of the running community with wide feet.

Anyone try those wide Nikes yet? Are they any wider than the 2e minimus? Those were too narrow for me.

New Balance 4E shoes are the only ones I can wear right out of the box!

Please make these shoes available in wider widths.

Hi All - I'm happy to confirm, we have NB Minimus shoes coming for KIDS at the beginning of next year!!! Not to leave all you adults out...we will also be releasing NB Minimus in 4E (men's) at the same time!

Cannot freaking wait for 4Es... I really want the MX20s in 4E though, and I know that styles are changing when the new Minimus comes out, so I'll never get the white and blue MX20s in 4E ='(

I'm wondering why you don't offer a 11.5 in the women's? I loved the style, but 11 is too small and I'm swimming in a 12! I wound up going with the Nike Free XT Motion Fit+ instead because they offered the 11.5.

Please consider offering half sizes for those of us with larger feet!

Just tried a pair of these on in the shop. What a pity NB isn't selling the 2E width in the UK - the standard D width is just too narrow for my feet. Even worse to hear (from NB UK) that you won't be selling anything other than D width in the UK in 2012 either.

Can't wait for the 4E!! The only minimalist shoe that I can fit into are the laced vibram five fingers. They will still probably be my go-to shoe for running / hiking (I think the toe separation is useful) but I would kill for NB trails I could wear. They are definitely more subtle than the vffs, but still look good IMO. Some days I just don't want that much attention :/

I am looking forward to seeing a 4E as well. I currently wear the Minimus Road in 2E and really need a 4E. If you need wear testers for 4E I would be happy to oblige. I run about 30 miles a week.

When are the 4e's going to be out (what date)?

Where can I get a NB Minimus in 2E width in Ontario, Canada?


Where can I get a NB Minimus in size 9.5 in a 2E width in Ontario, Canada?

I know 4E is not available yet but can't even find a 2E.

www.newbalancetoronto.ca does not stock does not have stock according to website:

SportChek does not have 2E.


Will keep looking ...

Is this shoe designed to stand up to marathon distances?